Intimacy Matters

Janet McGeever - Sex and the Menopause

• Jason • Season 1 • Episode 3

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Janet McGeever is an educator,  speaker, psychotherapist and author, based in Australia. Together with Diana Richardson she wrote Tantric Sex and the Menopause, and regularly hosts women's and couples workshops in Australia.  We chat to Janet about her background and path to becoming a teacher, menopause issues, how we change as we age, the differences between the sexual response of men and women, and much much more.

Janet can be found here: www.janetmcgeever.com

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Nicola Foster:

Welcome to intimacy matters. I'm Nicola Foster. I'm a sex and relationship therapist and a self confessed intimacy geek. I work with couples around the challenges of keeping passion alive, and how to deepen intimacy.

Jason Porthouse:

And I'm Jason Porthouse. Nicola's partner. I'm also fascinated by what makes for fulfilling, nourishing and sexually alive relationships.

Nicola Foster:

So whether you're in one or you want one, join us as we learn from the best experts in the field, and find out how we can have healthier, happier, sexier relationships.

Jason Porthouse:

So what's on the agenda this week?

Nicola Foster:

Well, you just this week alerted me to the fact that Jason that Michelle Obama has got a podcast. So I went and checked it out. I mean, it's so cool to be able to hear, you know, what's on her mind and who she, you know, some of her guests just love this kind of this access, we get through podcasts, to the more intimate people's lives. And I really enjoyed that she had an episode on there talking about what it was like going through menopause, as a woman in that kind of hype, you know, position of, you know, a lot of visibility on her and raising children and being being in the spotlight. And she was talking about having a hot flash. We call a flush, they call them flash on Air Force One when she was first lady. And, yeah, just I think it's just brilliant that there's more information at the moment coming out about what it's like being a woman going through menopause.

Jason Porthouse:

Yeah, cuz it's sort of like, for years and years and years wasn't really talked about. I don't think very much, you know, certainly that's my impression of almost like a taboo subject in a way.

Nicola Foster:

I think when my recollection was that it was sort of a jokey subject as well, if it was talked about, it was sort of quite was quite a bit of a dismissive dismissiveness and making fun of Yeah, kind of attitude.

Jason Porthouse:

Yeah, I guess this is partly why our guest this week is somebody that you've invited on who you know, before who works a lot with this.

Nicola Foster:

Yes, I, I thought it'd be wonderful to invite Janet McGeever on because she's written this book about menopause. She is postmenopausal. And she's been writing about menopause, in her blogs for a number of years, and sexuality, and she runs women's circles. She's been holding space for over 20 years. And I just thought it'd be really fascinating for our listeners, men and women, to hear about the fact that sexuality and being an older woman, a very happy companion.

Jason Porthouse:

Yeah, yeah. I'm looking forward to it. Yeah.

Nicola Foster:

So in today's episode, we're welcoming, wonderful guest Janet McGeever, who is the co author of tantric sex and the menopause. Janet lives in Australia. And she's been a practising psychotherapist for many years, and also holding couples retreats for a long time. And I actually personally met Janet, a Couples Retreat a few years ago, and loved her work and love her book and wanted her to come and joining Jason and I on the podcast. So Janet, thank you so much for joining us. It's lovely to be able to see you again. I'm really looking forward to hearing from you and learning about what's been happening since we first met. So perhaps you could just tell us a bit more. Tell us about yourself. Introduce yourself.

Janet McGeever:

Thank you, Nicola. And, and, Jason. It's wonderful to be here, too. I love talking about this subject. So it's always a great opportunity and a pleasure. So yes, I've been working in the field of psychotherapy for a year, like you said many years, more than 20 years. And it's written really, my interest has always been in body based psychotherapy and body based work. And I trained in a master's degree in experiential and creative arts therapy, because art has always been a big part of my my life, but it's the experiential part that was very curious and interesting for me, which was really about bringing awareness To the present moment, and using the body as a way to access, what is and what you're experiencing and what you're feeling. So as I worked with that, you know, one on one, and in my group work, when I came across the making laboratory, well, first of all, I actually I came across the heart of tantric sex, which is Donna Richardson's book, her first book, I was absolutely taken by the work in that or by her approach to sexuality. And then when I went to the making laboratory, which was back in 2008, actually, it's quite a while now, the first time when we, except when I experienced that retreat, everything dovetailed into how I was already working. So you know, I just felt so excited about work, and wanted to bring it to Australia. So that's how it all got started. Really, of course, there's, it wasn't a field that I ever expected to be working in at all. And now I work one on one with people as well, with couples using the same approach. But it's the it's that realm of of it, to me, it's accessing truth, you know, through using the body, it's accessing the truth of what is. And when we're here in the body. We're not in the future, or in the past, we're actually here in the present moment. And that's the best place to start when it comes to intimacy and relationships and reconnection, basically. So, yes, and I was always interested in the idea of Tantra, but I really didn't know what it was. And it was kind of scared me a little bit. You know, it was it was something that was kind of mysterious, and basically, because I just wasn't sure, really what would be expected of me. So, you know, was it weird was that, you know, what did you have to do, you know, when you went to something like that, but I think it was once I had read her book, and also read, actually, it was back in 2001. When they had Diana and Michael, the originators of the making love approach, which I teach in Australia, we're out in Australia, and they were trying to get a retreat off the ground. And there was with which, back then Australia wasn't quite perhaps ready for it. But there was an article in the Australian, which is a big newspaper here in here, Australian, and it was Ruth Australian, she was talking about, you know, sexual or sex being slow and sex being sensitive, and, you know, something completely different to what I'd ever imagined sex to be. And that really sparked my curiosity. And when I, when I heard that, and then I saw her book A few years later, and it all started to kick in, because it was around that time in my 30s really, when I was like, what was coming towards 40s I suppose. I was just getting so dissatisfied with sex. And, you know, what is this is like, and it just wasn't anything that really sustained me or that I felt was really sustaining the relationship. And so, yeah, it was really one sided. read that. And, and it just, it just, it awakens something inside of me where I just thought I want to meet this woman. And I was so lucky that I ended up meeting her and coming over to Switzerland and, and during that retreat, so that was really the start of it. Yeah, that's how I got into this field.

Nicola Foster:

And you guys kind of years ahead of your time, really, that that Body Body based approach to psychotherapy is really growing now. And but then it would have been kind of pretty, pretty new. I imagine

Janet McGeever:

You're right, it was actually very cutting edge. Actually, the work that I trained in came out of Melbourne University, and there's a about five lecturers who come through and had started to experiment, you know, experiment with this work. So it was you're absolutely right. I was thinking that as I was preparing today that it was so small that that that part of therapy, you know, so much was more, you know, cognitive based therapy at that time. So, yeah, but to me, this is what brings a lightness. You know, if we're not connected through our bodies, there's not a lot of a lightness. It's More up in the head. So, yeah.

Jason Porthouse:

Yeah, cuz there's, I mean, it's a it's a sort of perennial thing of mine that you know, we're in society now we're so in our heads all the time, aren't we, that we're, you know, everything from social media to the way we kind of just communicate with one another and everything. It's very, very heady based. And it's sort of, you know, my own journey around sort of getting more into the body and realising the power of that has been sort of really, you know, marked for me, because it's sort of, you don't realise you're in that space until you experience something out of it. You know? And and, and then you suddenly go, Oh, right. Okay, this is, this is what I've lost, you know, this connection with myself. And, you know, I'm not just this head floating around six foot above the planet that kind of happens to have something connected to it, there's, you know,

Janet McGeever:

yeah. All right. And it's so it's so true. Society is just pulling us away from from that the truth of our bodies, the truth of our reality. And, you know, another thing that I was remembering, too, is, when I had my second child, she was a home birth. And I remember being so relaxed in in that experience, I call it my virgin birth. And it was like something that felt so raw, and so natural, and so alive, and so that it was, you know, women live through it. We experience a lot through our bodies through menstruation, through giving birth through all the things that go on with our bodies. But I think it was this experience for me that really awakened something inside of me, where really, I didn't feel like I could make love or have sex in the same way after that experience it it did something change me on such a deep level. And from then on, there was this yearning inside to try and understand what else is there, there's got to be something else other than this. And so it was really, you know, I always say that I went on a pathological search to try and work out what was wrong with me. Because eventually after that, my body started to close down. And it was once I moved into this work, that I started to understand that that's actually not true. The body doesn't close down. It's that there's a lot of other factors there for a woman.

Jason Porthouse:

So, I mean, one of the things that really struck me when you were describing your, your experience and wanting to bring that I wonder what just curious to know how it was received. When you started putting the work in Australia.

Janet McGeever:

Oh, started to bring the Making Love retreat. Very well, really. However, it's, you know, it's a small, it's Australia, Australians are quite lovingly, a conservative bunch, but, but also they're open. And it's a bit of a dichotomy there. Really. So, you know, it was quite received quite well. So um, yeah, but we don't get the numbers that, you know, they have in Switzerland. It's a small retreat, you know, we have between seven and 12 couples, and which makes it extremely intimate to tell the truth. And so it's, it's very beautiful. And I feel I can't tell you how honoured I feel to be, you know, holding this work. That that retreat. So no, I loved it. It was both for me, it was like jumping into, you know, for me in a territory. And it's just been incredible honour.

Nicola Foster:

Since we've met, you've published a book with Diana. And I'm, well, I'm fascinated to hear about the book. I mean, I know about it, but for the listeners to hear about it, but also about the the process of how it's been to be a published author in this field. I'm sure you've heard lots from women in the process of publicising the book and the book being out there, so I'd love to hear about all of that.

Janet McGeever:

Sure. So yeah, we've had a great reception to that book. It's Yeah, it's been really wonderful. And because I came to the making number three, after I'd gone through menopause, so I went through menopause quite early. And so from the experience of the making love approach, and I was also writing in my blogs and was writing for a local magazine. I'd already been writing about menopause and sex for about five years. So it was already kind of in there for me. And Diana was invited by her German publisher to write a book on menopause. And that was great. And about six months later, she rang me and she said, 'I had no problem with menopause, I'm not sure what to say, but I know you had a lot of issues around menopause and sexuality. So, you know, would you co write with me' and oh, my God, of course, just so, so grateful, and, you know, honoured to be riding with Diana. And so that was a wonderful experience. And, and strangely enough, about a month before that call, I had received more downloaded or whatever you say, but while I was making love!

Nicola Foster:

wonderful,

Janet McGeever:

'I just gotta get up and write this down'. Literally 12 chapters just kind of tumbled out. And then I was like, What do I do with this? So it was like it was meant to be so just really a wonderful experience. And, and, you know, I lived through a lot of that the devastation that a lot of women experience in feeling like their body is broken and feeling like there's something wrong, feeling so misunderstood in this area of menopause, where, really, it's almost like women had been kept under a dark cloud or a shroud, and, and even the medical profession. You know, they're only it's, I mean, most of the time, it's more just other groups. And there's a lot being talked about menopause now, much more of the last two years, I've noticed. But when I was going through, there was absolutely nothing. And there was no explanation about what was going on what to expect. It was just this shroud of secrecy. And I just think it's one of the biggest, you know, it's, it's, what do I say? I don't know, it's, it's, um, it's the word, what's the word for I'm trying to get the word, but I don't know, I just feel like it's, we've, we've been hoodwinked somehow, into thinking there's something wrong, and there's nothing wrong. It's just the body doing its thing, as we move through the stages of our lives as a woman. And not to make it a pathology, not to make it something that is, is to be you know, like a lot of women, I speak to women in their 40s. And they're afraid of going into menopause. I'm saying, Don't be afraid, it's wonderful. It's, it's a change. And it's something that you can embrace, and you are stepping through into another period of your life, which is an opening, it's not a closing. And so

Jason Porthouse:

it's, it's really interesting, as a man, I noticed, you know, that the language around it is quite interesting, because you'll be, you'll hear people that are suffering from the menopause, and things like that, you know, that that whole kind of, like you say, the pathologizing of it, and it's a problem to be kind of gone over somehow or, you know, and it's just what, you know, any, any, any kind of changes that you go through? Oh, that's just what happens. And that's just, you know, and it's, it struck me that it's quite a dismissive attitude that say, a lot of conventional medicine, and they might be changing a bit now, but certainly in the past would have had towards it. It's, it's just one of those things, you know,

Nicola Foster:

I I spend quite a bit as you say, there is more, there's more support out there now. more resources, but I do, I think, because of all the messaging that's out there of that's fear based and pathologizing, in some of the groups that I'm in, I, yeah, I see a lot of people really desperate for medication and who believes that they're, they need to have their libido fixed, or their hormones fixed, or that this there's something terribly wrong and that their GP is not looking after them enough because it's not being yeah, this problem isn't being fixed and, and of course, have huge empathy with you know, some of the physical symptoms, which we may or may not talk about today, but that it's so beautiful to hear you say, Janet , that that you've been able to, to bring something that's welcoming and acts honouring and celebratory about the change, and

Janet McGeever:

That's really it was really through the making love approach, that gave me permission, and it's like Diana Richardson and and her work, felt like it gave me permission to be a woman and gave me permission to honour that my body had a different reality to what I thought that I should be as a woman, and that to honour the sensitive, and to honour the slow and to honour how my body opens as a woman, how differently that happens for a man to understand those differences. You know, before that, I felt like I was just understanding sex or sexuality as hardly half of it, and not the feminine half. So that's what really helped, helped me. And in that way, when I could feel in my body, actually, there's nothing wrong. It's actually opening up beautifully just needs more time. It's, you know, it's not, I'm not driven by hormones, like I was in my 20s. And so we've got to switch our thinking in our awareness to all if it's not being driven by that, then, you know, what, what? It's not a drive, but how do we, how do we move to something different, where we're looking at more sensitivity, and I think that's what menopause does, we become actually quite sensitive as women, our bodies start to become that there's more of a, I wouldn't, I don't want to say fragility, because there are I don't mean that to be in a bad to be put in a bad light, I guess sensitive is the word, , more sensitive to things to surroundings. And I think this is a great thing, I always say that this is the doorway. Because before that, we're running around like chooks with our heads cut off, doing a lot looking after children working really, really hard. But as we come into this period of our life, the body can't hold that anymore. And to me, this is this is the invitation to the sensitive to the sensual to this place that is other than other than that, because all of that only takes us away from ourselves. All of that striving, that driving that, that that living for something really takes us away from our own nature. And so this work really helped me acknowledge my own nature and knowledge, that's nature that is inborn in all of us. And so to me, it's a beautiful pathway to celebrate menopause rather than commiserate. And, of course, it's not denying that there are a lot of symptoms that women go through which I went through, which are debilitating, and, you know, really difficult. And I do think that this is where we do need a holistic approach to how we support our bodies, you know, both physically, mentally, emotionally, and a lot of that I do believe to is also just having a community of women around us and having others with us who are understanding. And one of the interesting things when I do give talks locally, it's mostly women in their 40s and 50s. And one of the things that they say is, it's such a relief to be here sitting with women of my own age. And it's not, it's this threat that women start to feel as they get older, around their own identity, that their usefulness, their beauty, and all of those things. And so when they're around younger women, and the whole media hype around, you know, you being youthful, younger, it's just, you know, they can see their bodies ageing, they can see that things are changing. And that attachment to something that is not perhaps attainable, is just barely makes them feel downtrodden. So to be amongst women of your own age, I think is a very important thing. And I love the breadth of being with all ages of women, it's I love the lightness of the young women, you know, when they come to retreats, and things like that, and the older women, I just think it's something for women who are moving through this phase, to be able to be together to speak about what's happening, you can share it in a non judgmental way.

Jason Porthouse:

There was something lovely that I read on your website, I think in one of the articles that you'd written that was about the process that you went through seeing of stopping seeing your body as others see it and starting to be in your body and and just be be with what was

Janet McGeever:

yeah Yeah, yes, exactly, just feeling it from the inside. And when you start to feel your body from the inside, that's when you can access all of that beauty, all of that, aliveness, that that potential that's actually there, and it's a switch, it really is a switch, because we're so ingrained to look from the outside, and, and to realise that, you know, love is what animates the body light is what animates the body. And the more that we as women can, can, you know, allow those parts that kind of close us down to be shared, and shine as ourselves and let that love shine. That's, that's beauty. That is beauty. And it's just looking at from a different way.

Nicola Foster:

And it's such an important message to for, for women of all ages, isn't it I know, in the therapy room that so many women, young women, beautiful women are not seeing that they have got so you know, such body confidence issues and issues around how they look because of the messages in the media, and not having that access to, to that inside feeling of enjoying their body and enjoying what can what they can feel inside. So I'm really, really glad you brought that in for all the people listening, you know, it's about that, like you spoke at the beginning, it's about really being in our body, in order to feel it rather than worrying about how it looks on the outside.

Janet McGeever:

Exactly. And I think that this is where women, you know, moving into our 40s 50s 60s can start to be an example for young women, you know, to to embody that and embrace that, rather than focusing on the classic way of focusing on the on the body. So, yeah, when younger women made this, like you say, and for us to be an example of that, I think is part of our role to tell the truth. You know, when you think of the, the tribes and how women used to be, and it's the inspiration of a woman in her body, a woman who's moving through the world, in her body, and in her heart is the most inspiring. I mean, you look at some of those women in their 70s. Now and, and even 80s, who are quite well known who you just go, oh my god, there's such a light in there. And I want to be like her, you know, but she's got wrinkles, and she's not the perfect body. So I think it's a big issue.

Nicola Foster:

On the subject of young women, something I'm asking all the guests on the podcast is a lot of couples come into the therapy room and speak about the pressure of the business, of life, of childcare of work of the keeping the you know, the heart with the house, and all of those things, and how to fit in intimacy or slow lovemaking or time for communication. And I wonder what you say to to your couples when they talk about this time challenge.

Janet McGeever:

It's, it's the bane of our modern day existence. It really is, I believe, and I think also that, excuse me, our expectations of relationship have really risen, you know, back 50 years ago, or years before it was about just keeping the house together. And you know, that those feelings might have been there. But now it's much more talked about, and we want everything and I think that's okay, I think that what needs to happen is we do need to schedule time the same, same way that we we make time to, you know, meet up with, with people or do certain things that needs to be given time and attention. I don't necessarily mean even to make love, I mean to actually just be together. And I have this thing that I tell my couples that I call it the daily dose of love. And that if you wait, you know, for a month or even even a week to come together, there's all that time in between. And I always say that it's a beautiful thing to take the time as they wake up, or as they go to sleep or both should actually just lie together. And just face to face, lie together. Let the bodies melt together. let yourselves just drop in together. And this is, this is a really bonding experience and very, very good for the nervous system. Because what's happened is that our nervous systems are in hyper alert with all the busyness, so are just too stressful, I don't want to when there's stress and tension, you can't relax, you have to find a way to transition from stress and tension to relaxation, which is really the basis of what what we're teaching, what I'm teaching here, is moving into making love through relaxation, well you can't when you just come from meetings and kids going on and all that kind of thing. So there has to be a way to move from one to the other. And I feel that this is a beautiful thing to keep a sustainable connection. And I've found with the couples that I work with, it works very beautifully, just 15 minutes, even five minutes, like, if you let the bodies come together, and actually just breathe, and relax together, it doesn't actually take that long to really relax in. And that's achievable, you know, to sort of have a two or three hour lovemaking session or a one hour lovemaking session may not be achievable, which probably sounds crazy if people haven't read the books, but you know, it is about the bodies relaxing together. And so that's what I always say, and I just see vast improvements in my couples doing that. And then and that's a beautiful segue into making love if if that, if that happens, you know, bodies start to relax, and then there's an opening. And then there's a softening into the body's softening into the heart. And letting go. And in that way, the relationship, being with the other, through touch becomes something that is nurturing the relationship and nurturing the rest of your life. And, and also, I think to let go of huge expectations, especially if there's young children named that's such a challenge. So yeah, keep to fit. It's like this, the daily dose, just keep filling up every day. And that's cumulative. Yeah.

Nicola Foster:

Thank you. That's really beautiful.

Jason Porthouse:

That's certainly true for us. That, you know, just that sort of those small moments of connection wherever it might be, if you do it consciously, and you do it with presence. It's like, it's like a homoeopathic dose of connection and love. You know, and that can just keep you you know, going. It's all too easy for us to just fall into this sort of space of stress. And, and also the assumption that actually, we don't schedule time for intimacy, whatever that might be, whether that's hugging or making love, you know, we kind of like there's this assumption that 'Oh, no, you can't possibly do that'. We've got to schedule time for everything else, but that for some reason, falls by the wayside. And and you know, doesn't, doesn't get prioritised. So, yeah,

Nicola Foster:

So many, so many couples say to me, no, it should be spontaneous. Otherwise, it's not, it's not right. If it's not spontaneous, and yeah, I speak with them, like you're speaking, you know, it's like, in order for it to be spontaneous, that means that both of you have to have caught that moment at the same time and be free and have it emerge in a long term relationship. That's, yeah, could take a while before you're both feeling spontaneous.

Janet McGeever:

And, you know, in my experience, this daily dose of love or a few, a couple of times a day, it actually allows you to fall into that spontaneous moment. You know, it can actually then just lead into that, like, I mean, but like I said, and, yeah, I think it is letting go of that. That idea of how it was, you know, you think of how much time you spend when you're coming together as a couple, your entire time is devoted to each other, usually. You know, every single moment is grabbed and everything else is, is kind of left left behind, but then everything shifts. So it's not that there's anything wrong, it's just that our attention is elsewhere. And so that's why the little incremental pieces of attention are really important.

Jason Porthouse:

So, one of the things that I'm quite interested in, you've probably worked with very, you know, lots and lots of couples around you know, on the retreats and things like that around around menopause issues, but what what Is your advice for the men in the in the couple to sort of support their partners? What can we do as guys to kind of help?

Janet McGeever:

Yeah, read the book! That's one thing. It's, it's really, I think, if men can find a way to be interested, first of all to understand what does happen for a woman, and what is the process of what is happening to her that it's not her problem, this is to not make her and her sexuality and how she is responding a problem. Because this is a big, a big thing. It's not a problem. It's and to be compassionate to the changes that are going on. And also to, you know, make sure that we're also looking at a situation where, you know, women, women don't necessarily need to orgasm new and don't don't necessarily need to get to that point, it's men think that that's what we always want to need. So long for us, as long as we are connecting, that's the main thing. So it's connection, really, that we want. So to not be so focused on the performance side of things to be more focused on, well, how can I actually be be present? How can I be it's not performance, its presence. That's what we are more interested in. And I'd say this for every woman of any age, but particularly with menopause, and to also support her in her feeling about her body to really give her plenty of kind of stroking and an attention to support her to feel that, that she is worthy. And that she is, you know, that it's beautiful, what is happening for her. So I think definitely, to become more aware, and understanding of how they, you know, the whole tantric, the fundamental idea of Tantra that women's and men's bodies have male and female polarity that are quite different, the opposite. And how women's bodies open up, it's different, and it's much slower, especially through menopause. So I think those are the important things. And I think what happens to with men, and this is a little sad is that men can start to shut down on on women because he's tried so much, and I feel a lot for for men, and in this way, because women were changeable beings we can be, you know, one touch that was good, today isn't necessarily going to be good tomorrow. And so, whereas men are more kind of a little bit linear, like, Oh, this is this is how I do it. And so to just, you know, try not to get discouraged about that. And I think this is where it's good to keep up communication and things like that. It's not about you, it's not about your performance, it's, you're doing great. It's just it's just outwit. Yeah, that's where movable changes.

Jason Porthouse:

And that's where communication is so key, isn't it? Really, it's just so many of these things can be lessened and, you know, eliminated entirely, just by good communication with one another, but we're not really taught how to do that, or we were not, you know, I think for a lot of guys, you know, like you say, of all ages, they've got this, this, this real hang up about performance and what sex is and how you do it, because they've learned it. You know, nowadays, they've learned it from porn, mainly, you know, this is the way we do sex. And that's what the woman wants. And actually, the liberation when you kind of get that that's not actually what you need to do is, is kind of great in a way because he's like, Oh, right, okay. There's a whole, you know, kind of whole load of baggage that I didn't even realise was there, and now it's gone.

Janet McGeever:

It's so true, I'd see that in the men in the retreats. In particular, by day three, they're just like, 'Oh, this is such a relief. You know, I don't have to perform' and that kind of thing. And also, it's about letting go of the goal. That's another thing that I would say for men to try and let go of that goal of getting somewhere and much more interested. Women are women in just that opening. And for for that opening to happen together and yeah,

Jason Porthouse:

Yeah, I think for a lot of guys as well, it's that sort of what we're kind of the performance anxiety, the idea that we've got to sort of Drive, drive the car in a particular way, you know, and actually being able to relax and just sort of listened to what our partners want. and respond to that is kind of fantastic, really, because I think quite often, blokes are a bit lazy like that they just want to communicate communication with your partner is a great way of achieving that.

Nicola Foster:

And I just feel really thrilled that we're doing this podcast really that, like lots of this, you know, Janet, you know, you run workshops, and we've run workshops, and we talk to couples all the time. But then there are some people who've just never had the opportunity to really have these sorts of conversations to hear sex talked about in this way. And and so I'm yeah, I'm just thrilled that you could join us to, to share your wisdom and everything you've learned with the couples. It's such a such a privilege, I'm sure there'll be people listening, who for some of this is completely new. So it's, yeah, it's exciting to get the message out there more.

Janet McGeever:

Yeah, it is a revelation, I think, come in, it's so simple, really what we're talking about, but whenever I start teaching retreats, one of the first things that I get on day one is Oh, my God, why is this not taught in schools? Yeah, and I think this is the thing. And this is the sad, the sad thing. So I'm glad you're doing this to, you know, to get this out there as well. And it's switching things on their head, because sex is talked about in so many different ways, there's so many ways that you can speak about this subject. And I think this is something that's just a very natural, it makes sexuality it's just a natural experience. It doesn't have to be this hyper sexualized, hyper performance based thing. It's it's opening to every moment, and every moment is fresh. If you are, if you are present in this moment, not in the future of going for the goal, or, you know, hanging out in the past, every moment that unfolds is new. And that is how spontaneity comes to me, that's what that's the key. And it says, spontaneity, or, you know, boredom, only really happens when you're locked into something else. If you're in the present moment, my God, it's a whole world that is exciting and beautiful. And opening. This is not just in sexuality, this is in all of our lives, you know, live and I know that you were curious about, you know, this period about of our life where, you know, we've got this lockdown, and everything like that. And I think it's important to just keep coming back to these things, these very, very simple things that we can be with, and that every moment is precious. And we can't begin to kind of wonder what can unfold from from being in this very moment.

Jason Porthouse:

Thank you

Janet McGeever:

so much.

Nicola Foster:

And if people want to keep on going, Oh, we could we could talk for hours. We will have you back on and I love to if people want to read your blogs or find out more about you can can you tell us where they can find you?

Janet McGeever:

Sure, just janetmcgeever.com, and themakingloveretreat.com.au is is that they're the two two websites. So if they're Australian or New Zealand and so we have we even had some a couple come from Europe, but that's not possible. Yeah, so themakingloveretreat.com.au. But my, my website has everything on that. And yeah,

Jason Porthouse:

and hopefully, hopefully won't be too long before you're back doing the retreats in person.

Janet McGeever:

Well, we are back in May. So I've decided I'm doing it no matter what. We see what happens. So things are pretty good in Australia at the moment. So we're pretty lucky.

Nicola Foster:

Yeah. Wonderful. Wonderful. Oh, well. Evening for us and morning for you. So enjoy your rest of your day.

Jason Porthouse:

ahead of you.

Janet McGeever:

Thank you. Yes, I do. Okay. upon some sleep, yeah, yeah. Thanks, guys. really lovely to be with you.

Jason Porthouse:

Thank you. It's been an absolute pleasure. Yeah.

Janet McGeever:

Yeah, I feel that connection would be easy to hang out for a day. Well, maybe I was over there or you're over here.

Nicola Foster:

I'm just like, I can almost hardly bear to think about how beautiful it would be to be in Australia in the sun. Not in lockdown. Yeah. Maybe one day.

Jason Porthouse:

Thanks for listening. If you like what you hear, subscribe so you never miss an episode. And remember, you can interact with us at wanting hyson more.com