Intimacy Matters

Kalindi Jordan: Shame, Healing and Sensuality

• Jason • Season 1 • Episode 7

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Kalindi Jordan is a teacher working with women and couples to help them reclaim their innate sensuality.  We talk to her about the roots of shame, coming back to the body, giving and receiving,  and the effects of trauma in blocking our pleasure.  We look at the importance of working with others to help healing, and the power of group work.

Kalindi can be found here: kalindijordan.com

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Nicola Foster:

Welcome to intimacy matters. I'm Nicola Foster. I'm a sex and relationship therapist and a self confessed intimacy geek. I work with couples around the challenges of keeping passion alive, and how to deepen intimacy.

Jason Porthouse:

And I'm Jason Porthouse. Nicola's partner. I'm also fascinated by what makes for fulfilling, nourishing and sexually alive relationships.

Nicola Foster:

So whether you're in one or you want one, join us as we learn from the best experts in the field, and find out how we can have healthier, happier, sexier relationships.

Jason Porthouse:

So what's caught your eye this week?

Nicola Foster:

Well, something I've been paying attention to this week is looking at the latest term. NATSAL study that they did

Kalindi Jordan:

I know how much you like a NATSAL study...

Nicola Foster:

Yes, it's the British study for looking at sexual behaviours in the population. And it happens every two years. And this, they just did a special one. And I was really fascinated, because of course, it's something that we've been speculating about in our conversations and with my conversations with other peers, you know, our people having more or less sex during lockdown, certainly the beginning of lockdown. It was a Yeah, a media, you know, hot media question. Lots of people were talking about COVID babies and all this time at home.

Jason Porthouse:

So what did the study say?

Nicola Foster:

Well, the study bore out what I had certainly thought would happen, which is that frequency and interest in sex declined, right. I mean, anxiety, and passion are not great bedfellows.

Kalindi Jordan:

It's hard to feel sexy in a global pandemic. So yeah, I can imagine that that would probably put people off stride as it were.

Nicola Foster:

Yeah. It bore out, what I think most people's sort of suspected

Jason Porthouse:

Was anything so reported that was positive.

Nicola Foster:

Well, another thing that it bore out, which also is what had been the experience I was seeing in some of my couples that came for therapy, is that most people expressed that there was no change in the quality of their relationship. But where there was a change reported, more people reported that the relationship and quality had improved than reported that it had declined.

Kalindi Jordan:

So let me get this straight. So the relationship quality improved if there was a change, but this sex life got worse. If there was a change. So people spending more time together, sorting out their issues may be addressing things that have gone unaddressed because they didn't have time to pressures, all the rest of it. And alongside that, they're not feeling frisky so sex takes a backseat.

Nicola Foster:

Yeah, that's what it would seem. I mean, I think the you know, one of the factors, of course, is with the anxiety people are turning to soothing behaviours. Like, you know, a lot of people reported going to, you know, eating more chocolate or drinking more alcohol or some of those like, comfort, cosy behaviour, that's very soothing, but not necessarily conducive to intimacy and sexuality. And actually, couples who've been living together for a long time, need to work at creating time to be intimate. And I mean, time, dedicated special time. Yeah. And of course, the other thing that's been happening in the pandemic is that a lot of people have had many polls on their time in terms of volunteering, caring for family members, home schooling, you know, there's been so much else to think about that it's hardly surprising really, that sex sort of took a backseat as it were.

Kalindi Jordan:

So Netflix and chill stopped being a euphemism, during the pandemic. People were actually we're just, Netflixing and chilling.

Nicola Foster:

I think that Netflix and chill really was probably a quite a young demographic. You had to teach me what Netflix and chill was. So on this week's episode, we're delighted to have with us Kalindi Jordan, who's an international teacher are working with sexuality and spirituality really at that intersection. And, and he works very much with the body. She works with women and with couples And I'm not sure possibly with men too. We'll we'll ask her. So thank you so much kalindi for joining us. And I won't go much longer into your introduction as I think the whole podcast is going to be a sense of getting to hear about you and your work. So thank you so much for joining us.

Kalindi Jordan:

It's such a pleasure to be invited, I'm very excited about having a conversation with you both of my favourite things is talking about intimacy, relationships, sex, bodies, pleasure, all of it. So I'm really happy to be here. And let's, we can see where we go. See where it all goes. Thank you for inviting me. Perfect. And one, I suppose one starting point is that it shines through on your website and what you share on social media and things like that. That this is a real passion of yours and a real kind of caught almost like calling, I guess I would describe it as Where did, where did that come from?

Unknown:

It's quite, it's quite...for me, I sort of am amu ed.... I'm quite amused by al this because it really did star when I was a teenager, I wa just one of those teenagers tha was absolutely fascinated by th body. Fascinated by the concep of love, fascinated by th relationship between obviously teenager, boys and girls, yo know, what was going on there What was happening in my body What was that feeling, when tha person talked to me? You know what was going on? When that bo or that girl? What's the fac when they're attracted to eac other? And so I used to ask m friends and people around me s many questions. I just had, an so when you said it's a calling I do really feel it's been real calling of mine, startin from my own sense of curiosity about relationship and about th complexity of it. And then also remember, as a teenager feeling really disturbed by tha sort of people's place wher they didn't feel their ow beauty. I really got confused b how we lost our sense of beaut and worth and joy in our bodies I quite enjoyed my body. An when people put themselves dow or didn't feel good enough, an then I started to become mor curious about what was why wer people not enjoying themselves because I just saw people a very beautiful and lovely, and didn't really get it. And so started to ask all those deepe questions. And that that was th beginning really, of it the taking me into the sort of 2 years I've worked with people

Nicola Foster:

Yeah, it's funny that you should mention that, because that's one of the areas where I I think if you as an expert, just from what I've read on your on your site is the is this Yeah, people when people struggle to believe in the body or their beauty. I know a lot of the clients I work with, this is a struggle for them. They have, they have a lot of embarrassment, or shame or negative voices about how they look. And that gets in the way of them enjoying sexuality with their partner. And I'm often surprised by it when I hear it in the room, this kind of like,'well, it's my body, you know that that's the problem'. And these are very, in my experience extremely beautiful people. And so I wonder if you could tell us a little bit about how you would work with somebody who, who's who's not got that sense of loving their own body?

Unknown:

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, again, I actually feel I feel that this is is a symptom of our society. I think it's an infection that's come coming through our societies, and the way that that social media, the way that the what we're fed basically, from outside of us of what is perceived to be the right way to look the right way to behave the right things to like the right things to dress and all we're sort of constantly being bombarded with. Supposedly the perfect, perfect image or the suggestion of it, I think some things are changing very Slowly, but things are changing, which is exciting, especially in the modelling world and, and the world of women. I think that's really exciting. But for you know, for a long time, I think we're being fed. So many pieces of information of how we should look and what beauty is, as a real part of it, when I'm part of it is recognising that infection, that illness that's come into our thoughts and our minds that I always perceive them as almost like little little arrows, tiny little arrows that have kind of come in, and they've lodged into our system, they've lodged into us. And so part of it is starting to tease out where have they come from because of case we've got one of them coming from society. But a lot of people experience a lot of shaming either from their family, from their teenage years from lovers partners, people more personal and more close. So it's finding out where has where have the belief structures originated? First of all, it's like, Where have they come from? And how have they got in here. Because then we make them our own, we decide to believe them, basically. And that then becomes our own self speak, as it were inside ourselves, the judgement comes in. And for me, it's like a journey of investigating all of those different aspects that have come in, and then starting to rewire, and come into relationship with the actual physical sensation of the body, what's actually here in this moment, underneath all those beliefs, and thoughts, because it's the beliefs and thoughts and shame, and that creates a disconnect, from sensation. And so the journey is going through through that understanding, almost, and then almost to the other side of it underneath it. And coming back into here now sensation, based perception. It's kind of that's part of the part of the process.

Kalindi Jordan:

Yeah, because I'm thinking it's I'm imagining is almost like a double whammy in many respects, because you've got the conditioning on one hand, of the notions of perfect beauty and advertising and all of that sort of bombardment. And all those things you mentioned, and also a society that is progressively more and more disembodied. Yeah.

Unknown:

Absolutely. And we Yeah, and we can see it more and more. You know, in the sort of World of computers, we're sort of, we don't even have to present what we look like, we can change the way we look with social media with effects and all this sort of thing. And so again, we're in a teetering point of where that's going to go, of course. But what I find is that the journey of the way we feel good in our body is coming into a really deep acceptance of how, how it is what's here now, because there's there are things we can change. Obviously, we can change our hair, we can change, our weight can go up and down. There are certain things we can change. But there's so many things we can't change, about the way we look. And there's something about coming into a really honest dialogue with our bodies. And I remember when I first started getting cellulite, I was like, what, I don't want to have cellulite. Ready to have cellulite. And it was interesting because I started to feel really different in my body. And it took me a while to work out, I had actually started to disassociate from my thighs. And I enjoy running and I was like, I just didn't want to run some arch and something was going on. And then I clocked because I had started getting some cellulite. I had made a judgement over my thighs particularly. And I'd started to feel disconnected from them. And I had started to not actually be in relation in a positive relationship with them. And so what I did Was come into positive relationship with it was, had to be very honest with it. I'm not sitting here going, I love my cellulite I love you, I love you. It's like because I actually don't love it. But I came into relationship with it was such a rub my thighs and be like, I acknowledge you, you're here. I'm with you. I'm not rejecting you, I'm here. I'm not saying that I love you and want you. But I'm also not rejecting you. Because you are here. And this is what's happening. And something massively changed to the point. And to the point where it's like, I'm not saying that I'm in love with it, but I feel love, I feel care. And so there's something about the honest reality with what we have, especially with our bodies as they change in the age, keeping in positive relationship, honest, positive relationship is really important.

Nicola Foster:

And I wonder if there's also something here about in the realm of sexuality, feeling worthy of receiving pleasure, of love, or of being of being able to relax and have this experience. And that was how we look. Like you say, it really touched me what you said about the, you know, not necessarily loving the cellulite, like, you don't necessarily have to feel that you've healed all the kind of challenges that you have with your body. But you may feel that you're willing to receive the love of your partner. And that that actually trumps the feeling a bit rubbish about your body, and maybe it is okay to keep a kimono on when you're receiving some pleasure or something, if that makes you feel relaxed and comfortable and able to be there.

Unknown:

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, and for me, pleasure is all about being in relationship with. And that's where the being in relationships with our body means that we can more easily receive the offering of touch from our beloved the offering of complements, appreciation, which are all forms of pleasure. In my mind, pleasure has many, many forms, by the pleasure of somebody appreciating us the pleasure of somebody loving us, the pleasure of somebody touching us. And one of the important components of pleasure is being there to receive otherwise we miss it isn't the other our partners is trying to love us and they and they don't see all the different things that we might see about our body or even about our nature. Yeah, they've just got they just see us as awesome. Go. I love your laugh. I love the way you do that quirky thing. I love the way you look. Yeah,

Nicola Foster:

it's absolutely huge. I i've been just deeply diving this month into the field of adult attachment, which is a big area of interest of mine. And I absolutely loved I am Paul Heller, his latest book about returning called the power of attachment returning, and it's about kind of recovering back to secure attachment. And it sounds so kind of fancy all of that. But actually the chapter on healing anxious attachment has so much in it around being there to receive. Because often what's happened is that we've kind of in in all the anxiety, we've lost the capacity to actually be there when the good things arrive. So it's learning to be there. So I think what is so important, yes,

Kalindi Jordan:

yeah, and I think that's true for you know, being on the other side of the fence as well, that if if there isn't anyone there to receive what you're giving, it gets very difficult.

Unknown:

I agree because I what I find when I work with couples, sometimes I'm really noticed that white maybe one one of the partnership has been very praising of the other and very appreciative for a long time. And the other part of the partnership isn't really receiving it. And then eventually the one that's been offering the praise and the appreciation love stops giving it because it's not being received is not being acknowledged, and so there's not a really healthy reciprocation of giving and receiving that life is, has a balance that needs to have a balance of equal giving and receiving. Our whole system is all about balance, we around giving and receiving every organ in our body is about the receiving and giving it takes on chemicals and takes them on. And then it gives something back. Everything has a cycle of giving and receiving. It makes harmony basically. And so if somebody is giving us receiving is incredibly important, actually is poor, important part of that cycle, somebody is telling you, appreciating you and sharing something of wonder, see if you can stay present to receive it even if you don't believe it, can you receive it? Can be there enough? In the moment to receive it for sure.

Kalindi Jordan:

And I think that can you know that the importance of being able to receive is often just underestimated and the fact that it's sometimes not easy. It can be a real block content, I think for a lot of people, men and women. And and yeah, just that that sort of like you say, Can you stay present with that, and for a lot of people, they just can't.

Unknown:

And it comes back to those build up of those belief structures inside us that they are the pieces that create a resistance to receiving either receiving the words, or the emotional work, the emotion that somebody's sharing, or the physicality that somebody's sharing. It's like it's those belief structures that we've cultivated inside us that create that resistance because again, my fascination over the years is like, what is in when I'm working with people? Is that what is it that's in the got in the way? What is that structure, that stopping somebody receiving themselves and receiving the gifts of intimacy and pleasure, and sexual in enlightenment, awakening, whatever that might be, in the course of your work with in your workshops, what would you say are some of the common things that people report have gotten in the way What?

Nicola Foster:

What are the most common kinds of struggles you hear people bring? Yeah, so

Unknown:

I think some lot of the common themes that I mean, a lot of the common themes that come up are all the different forms of trauma. And they're, in my view, the tumour comes into the body in different ways. There's mental trauma, which, you know, comes from what we're told how we're treated what what something on the outside has said, you know, that more sort of an that can be at varying levels. A lot of people don't necessarily call it trauma, but it's like, those structures come in that they create a traumatic response. Again, emotional manipulation, emotional confusion, either in childhood, or adulthood, wherever emotional confusion. And then of course, physical physics, either not, you know, from the level of some sort of physical abuse, but also to just physical injuries.

Nicola Foster:

Just

Unknown:

to do it, saying yes, when you actually meant no, you know, in moments of intimacy, or meeting somebody, that it's not necessarily close to the what people would often think as a trauma but it the body holds that memory. And so, what then we're getting is responses of numbness, this association,

Nicola Foster:

the

Unknown:

capacity to not actually let go fully into orgasm, so that they can get a certain amount of energy will build and then a kind of form of doesn't quite fulfil. And so, so there's a lot of that that people are experiencing. Somehow how also there's connection and suddenly The mind, the mind comes in and sabotages you so a lot of sorts of No, I feel that a lot of people know that there's something deeper, and there's something more that they can be experiencing. And they don't quite know how to get there. Why they can't feel it. But we know it. We know there's a lot of pleasure and joy in in here. But we Yeah, all sorts of things come along in our life journey, but just not the viewpoint viewpoints. So it's just finding the way back to coming into connection before the show.

Kalindi Jordan:

Yeah, and that sense of reclaiming what is an innate birthright? Yeah.

Unknown:

So if we look at like babies, it's like, that fascination of they, they're almost just pure sensation, really, because they haven't named anything, they haven't judged anything. They haven't put anything into a category. And I'm not saying we can live an adult life like that. But what I'm saying is that we can regain that sense of curiosity. And that sense of that level of connection, of fascination with the sensations of our body, and the sense of our body. And the pleasure that lies within the curiosity of interaction with the world. And so there's, we can reclaim that we can clean up for sure.

Kalindi Jordan:

Yeah, yeah, the the image I have is a sort of said, you know, floating around and uncovering layers and layers and layers, all this sort of crap that's been piled on. And some of its even ancestral, you know, that there's an ancestral component to all this as well, you know, that long history of denying the feminine and denying Feminine Empowerment and keeping, keeping the feminine, you know, kind of suppressed. Yeah, and alongside that, a kind of equally unhealthy version of what masculinity is, as well. So these two kind of things that collude to kind of create a distance from this innate sense, a knowledge that we have. Yeah.

Unknown:

I mean, as you've just mentioned, that ancestral stuff, in my experiences, does that probably very similar to you both, but it's like, when we're looking at what's in the way, we come at it from all sorts of different angles, you know, where was where is it coming from, and again, ancestral, ancestral behaviours, us are where we're all working on that, you know, we're all working, it travels through, obviously, our own pair of parents behaviours, or carers behaviours. But it also sort of runs through sort of DNA memory is in the blood, you know, the behaviours and the thought processes. They're all travelling through the blood that we will carry. And so there is this. We're unpacking quite a big, big sexual stories. We look back in history, we look at our parents and our parents, parents and the different choices that they were and weren't given. And it's big stuff that we're all exploring, actually. And I really take my hat off to the courage for people to be curious and look, look and say, What can I change here? It's, it's great. Yeah.

Nicola Foster:

Thank you. Thank you for bringing that Jason. Yeah, it's such a rich area. I feel very fortunate that before I started doing this work, I had done some studying and family constellations. And so having that that insight into watching how the Yeah, the things that happened to the grandparents, parents now the great grandparents, can still be so present in the body can still be playing out and be unknown. They're not in the conscious but they're in the unconscious. And yet when we like you say when we get courageous enough or or just Sometimes the block gets so big doesn't it that we it's just time we have to a client comes because actually, they're not willing to keep carrying on with this block being there and it needs to be looked at. And then it's like Jason said of the image of Jason Yeah, I was like digging out all the stuff that's kind of got layered in on top to try and find out I sometimes say to clients that, that we're kind of CO we're like detectives together in the mystery of what's going on. And it's not that I'm some expert, who's imparting my knowledge, but that together, where we're getting really curious to look at what, what might be the confluence of physical, and historical, and emotional, and psychological and conscious and unconscious, and all the different things that might be coming together to mean that there's this this block.

Unknown:

I think the analogy of a detective because it's like, again, a detective. It doesn't, they don't know the answers that but they're there to inquire and find out and link and link the different areas, all the different. What's the sort of all those different aspects of a situation that seem disconnected, but then work out how they're all connected, and how they all influence each other, all those pieces of a puzzle, and it's just such a value to have somebody, when somebody wants to unravel their sensuality, their sexuality, their relationships, having somebody to be a detective together is of absolute importance, I believe, because it's really hard to see ourselves, it's really hard to see the connections from when we're inside ourselves. So having someone to be a detective with you, brings huge amount of value, actually.

Nicola Foster:

And on the subject of having someone with you. Something I'm really fascinated about is the power of community when it comes to healing. And I know you run a group programme, I wonder if you could say something about that about the mirror neuron effect of kind of being in a group when you're looking at this?

Unknown:

Yeah, so I run groups with we work with women. And what I find is when you're sat in a space, and obviously I also run groups with couples as well, that are just sort of talk about in relation to groups of women. There's a collective unravelling that, for example, women are doing right now, again, but they were just saying the ancestral but also the archetypal patterns that women are working on. And so there's something very of huge value of women coming together. And exploring the challenges, the themes, what's coming up, being in that vulnerability. Because again, I think, as all of us, no one, no one's knowing the answers. But we're all exploring a new design together. And we're all shedding the same things, actually. They all they all show themselves different different in our own individuality, of course, because we're all in individual stories and experiences. But actually, there's a lot of collective understanding. And and what I find when women come together is they're incredibly loving and compassionate to each other. really willing to honour and respect the courageous work that each woman is doing in their own investigation of what's got in the way of them feeling really empowered and really connected. And so I think I've been doing that for 10 years now, in various forms. And I think that's one of the huge humbling and heart really opens my heart. It's basically watching women and then there's something very when a group of people are practising embodiment practices together, there's the collective wash, I call it, power is the right word, but like the collective resonance in the nervous system, support each other to change into something new. So there's something really valuable. But like, I don't know that, you know, people watch groups of people doing Tai Chi or Qi Gong in the park or something, if you stand near them, there's just this sort of collective resonance, their nervous systems are interlinked in a way. So there's something about doing embodiment practices with groups of people, that helps each other shift and relax into a new pattern and a new design. And so that's why I love doing I love doing group work. And I My passion is very much with women and couples.

Kalindi Jordan:

Yeah, my experience of doing, you know, group work with with men has, it's totally echo what you say about the power of just that common experience. And that somebody can bring something to a group that you suddenly think, Oh, right, okay, you know, that's me. I can, I can relate to that, as well. And there's just something. So healing about hearing those common experiences coming from other people.

Unknown:

Yeah, we can feel so isolated in our own story. You know, and it doesn't mean we always have to sit in a group and tell everybody our history and our story, but just hearing people's reflections and, and responses to things, it just opens up again and again. And you probably experienced this Nicola, I mean, this is more maybe in one in one to one space, but when there's shame in the body, when there's shame about something, either, like we've been talking about the way our body looks, or there's shame about our sexual preference, or this shame about what we desire, or, or something, what shame really needs is to be heard and met in a clear, clean, loving space with no judgement. And, and that's the real challenge of shame, because that's the thing, it fears the most as being seen and heard and exposed. But the remedy of it is being seen, heard and shown, but in such a loving way, with no judgement of it. The incredible transformations that I've witnessed through that kind of level of, I just can't carry this shame anymore. I just need it to change, you know, I need it to melt away. And offering that into a safe space with somebody is incredibly powerful. Yeah, I

Nicola Foster:

completely agree that, that that word light, you know, shining, the light being being witnessed, being seen, being able to speak about things that you thought because of the conditioning that was layered on you worry, when when we're not okay to say or to share and then to be to be witnessed and loved in, in all of your messy, you know, in all your messiness, all the things that may not be the order that you may believe to be shameful, and to actually have that light, Shawn. I think that's why, you know, one of the reasons we wanted you to come on the podcast and why we're doing the podcast is to bring the areas of sexuality into the light, and we're peeling back these layers of shame.

Unknown:

Yeah, I think we're in a really great time. Because I think I think there is a sexual liberation going on. I think there's still some shadow and there's still some complexity, but there is, you know, all styles of relationship are starting to be way more accepted in society, whatever combination of humans coming together, you know, and all sorts of different sexuality and expression of intimacy

Nicola Foster:

are

Unknown:

much less shameful and much more put in the category of exploration and adventure and playfulness. And I think that's really exciting. And so I do feel things are changing and I do feel we're still finding our way with it. But it takes each of us to take interest It's each of us to take interest in relationship and take interest in our own sexual self and inquire and go, who am I? What do I want to be? How do I want to explore pleasure? What are what is this body? What does it want to experience and share? And how does it want to bring pleasure with somebody else and all of these beautiful questions. So it's very citing time for relationship and also powerful time for relationships, we are shedding so much so much as well. Yeah.

Kalindi Jordan:

Yes, yeah, I agree that the notion of an exciting time, and I also wonder, as well, because these things are sort of, then they often never happen equally. And I'm seeing an awful lot now of sort of more and more evidence coming through about the damage for in terms of male sexuality around things like pornography use and stuff like that, you know, that there's this sort of, so on the one hand, you've got this sort of rising up of consciousness around all the topics we've been talking about, and also this kind of prevalence of something that's, you know, a little bit darker and maybe more harmful. And so there's, again, this sort of coming into some some kind of balance around that.

Unknown:

Yeah, that's the challenge. Is there some shadow, the shadow Vic, there's this this freedom arising? And then there's all this complexity is Yeah. Questioning which part of it Do we want to allow ourselves to delve into for sure? Yeah, I think there's a huge thing as well in the in. I mean, I'm not a man. So I can't speak from that experience. Because it's, it's, it's a different psyche. But there's huge amount of moving for, for men, I believe. I think it's a very powerful time for men at the moment. And

Nicola Foster:

yeah,

Unknown:

huge amount of shedding around. Power and power, empowerment and different power and powerlessness. And the relation to women coming into the perception of power. And so what does power mean for man? Because there's been a lot of disempowerment for men as well. So, rewiring what is power is huge.

Kalindi Jordan:

Yeah. Yeah. That sense of Yes. Like you say, coming to a new understanding of what, you know, a new definition may be of masculinity and, and carrying that energy, and what does that mean, and what does that look like? And how can that manifest in a way that isn't sort of predicated on subjugating? You know, propping up the patriarchy or subjugating half of the population? Or, you know, or denying the kind of the power that's innately there in that. So

Unknown:

yeah. And I think I again, I think that's exciting. Like, as, as you as you do, it's like, there's more, more and more men exploring it. Again, none of us know the full answers of how do we shed people shed patriarchy is so insidious in our psyche. But we're asking the questions, which is the most important piece right now.

Nicola Foster:

I always feel such a strong passion to want to be speaking to both women and men. Because I think this is such a important time and men have got with with so many questions about sexuality and pornography, and whether it's an addiction or not, and the me to campaign and how to be with sexuality. And, you know, we have the privilege of being in a couple dynamic as as born in a man's man, a woman's body, body and Jason in a man's body. And whilst that's the kind of heteronormative dynamic, it's also a place where we can come to a podcast and ask these questions about what it is to be a woman at this time what it is to be a man at this time. And I feel like there's a lot of women doing amazing work, amazing personal development work. But if the men are not also joining in on that dialogue with themselves and asking themselves the questions about their sexuality and who they are as sexual men, then there's a bit of an imbalance. So

Unknown:

yeah, so there's a real invitation for foot for men and women to step into that inquiry. And again, it's not Well, I think we're creating the new design, you know. And so what I finding, though more and more is that when I work with couples when I work with the the men individually, a lot of what I'm finding is, is is working with the elements of shame. And the places that are almost like the the men's wildness, the wildness that's been tamed and the fear of their own wildness because the wildness has been judged. And the wildness has. There's almost my sense and obviously, you know, this is just a bit of a reflective place. But it's like something to do with the Miss placement of the wildness has then fully just judged the whole of it. And therefore, the passion gets lost, because they're not giving permission for their role wildness of and wildness to me doesn't mean chaos, no wildness, even watch a wild horse running across the mall. And it's not chaos. It's watching where it's running. It's looking after itself, it's wild and free, but it's very conscious of the ground and the terrain is running on. So wildness, to me is something that's very steady and very focused. And it's all totally aware of its surroundings, but it's free. And so there's something about the misuse of it over time, but only on some levels. Because of the shame go all over that it's also shame, put the wildness in the same pot as it. And I really crave that for myself as women but also for men. And I do feel that there's something in that where the loss of passion gets taken away because of this some judgement, misplaced judgement of men's wildness. I mean, it's a theme to open up maybe. Yeah,

Nicola Foster:

it's a whole nother whole new episode of the podcast is fascinating subject for sure.

Kalindi Jordan:

I'm interested to know, because we talked about earlier on about some of the blocks that you see in women and some of the the kind of the negative messages and all of those things. And I'm wondering if you could speak a little to the kind of the rewards that come through this kind of inquiry?

Unknown:

Absolutely. Oh, my gosh, I, I think one of the exciting things that I love is I get phone calls from women going, I just want to tell you that I've just had the first orgasm ever with a man, I am so excited. I don't think many people do many people get those guys. As I feel very privileged. You know, and so obviously, that sort of thing is some of the rewards of taking the effort to go actually, you know, I feel like I could be enjoying this human experience way more, I really feel like we could take our relationship even deeper. And so so the rewards of it are experiencing more connection, experiencing a movement, a pleasure, liberating your orgasm, liberating your orgasmic creativity with your partner, opening up something new when we start to shed the shame and and the restriction of beliefs, especially about our bodies. We get a sense of freedom and curiosity back which means we open up to playing playing more with this body and get more creative. So a lot of people report to me that they actually feel more inspired in their work. They feel more creative in in whatever projects they love doing. start becoming attractive attracting not just to partners or lovers but also to things that make them grow. As you as you both know, like, and I'm sure many of you know, but sexual energies, not just about sex, it's about your creativity. It's about your vital vitality for life

Kalindi Jordan:

is the life those are the tails. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that goes all the way through.

Unknown:

Yeah, it goes all the way through into all our relationships is when we're in our bio sexual vitality. It's about our creative connection with everything. So it's so inquiring.

Nicola Foster:

Oh, that's, that was a beautiful question. Jason. I think a lovely place to end because it's such a Yeah, they hope and optimism of a more vitality, more creativity more alive. vnus. That's Yeah. That's a wonderful promise. Yeah, absolutely.

Unknown:

Our bodies are really, really built for pleasure. You know, on every level, we can look at our minds they can create and explore such pleasure. And such beauty and our hearts. Look at our hearts and our emotions, we can create such beauty and connection between us. bodies have so much delight in them. We really, really can receive on a very deep level life and feel vital in it. So inviting everyone to open up to have that beautiful, even just a moment of courage to just go okay. I'm ready to receive myself.

Kalindi Jordan:

I think I understand why it's such a calling for you now. Lindy. It's been an absolute pleasure having you on our podcast and no doubt, and I'm hoping very much that you'll come back again. And we'll we'll talk some more about other subjects to where can people find out about your work?

Unknown:

So people can find out what me at kalindi jordan.com. And as Nicola asked me earlier, I run something called central mastery for women. And it's a three month journey of exploring and finding your own sensual and sexual roadmap. Yeah, inviting you to come and join me. tested. Thank you so much for inviting me.

Nicola Foster:

Thank you so much, Glenn. Do I'm going to take that image of the horse and its wildness. With me, so beautiful.

Unknown:

Thank you.

Kalindi Jordan:

Thanks for listening. If you like what you hear, subscribe so you never miss an episode. And remember, you can interact with us at wanting hyphen more.com